Bert Marseille: 'Benefits affair was a blessing in disguise'
Bert Marseille: 'Benefits affair was a blessing in disguise'
- Posted on: September 3, 2024
- Last modified on: September 3, 2024
Professor Bert Marseille (University of Groningen) calls the Allowance affair a “blessing in disguise”. “As a result, judges have started to wonder whether they are making just decisions. And governing bodies are looking more at how they interact with their citizens.” He is critical of judges: “They run too easily in the argument that they are overburdened,” Marseille said in an interview in the new issue of Mr.
photo: Corbino
In addition to sociology at the University of Groningen, he studied legal and public administration to have a better chance in the labor market. He now feels like a fish in the water of legal science. Marseille is particularly interested in the human dimension in administrative law. In his numerous publications, he calls for officials to call objectors instead of appealing in court. It bothers him that governments and judges work so slowly. He encourages administrative judges to rule orally more often, because then they have more contact with the parties. And he makes a case for preliminary questions in administrative law. The Allowance affair, in which tens of thousands of parents were plunged into misery through harsh legislation, has caused a lot and is therefore a blessing in disguise, says Marseille. “Judges have started to wonder whether they are making just decisions. Governing bodies look at how they interact with their citizens. The government's task is to realize citizens' rights. This is being considered better now than ten years ago.”
Thoughtless
Marseille, together with fellow scientist Marc Wever, did research to the implementation of minimum regulations by the municipality of Groningen. “Municipalities are dealing with this thoughtlessly,” says Marseille. “When citizens call on it, they have to fill in a lot of things, while the municipality only needs very little information. Groningen now works from trust, based on the good intentions of its citizens. Better thought is being given: how can we ensure that people who are entitled to it also apply for the provision?” The fact that the government is still making a lot of mistakes is evident from a research by Marseille and his colleague Coen Modderman. They sent an email to all the mayors of the Netherlands asking for a discussion about the principle of service. “The car response emails varied enormously. The one by Ahmed Marcouch (Arnhem), who also called later, was the best: courteous, interested and informative. But there were also lousy answers like “You must use this email address for orders” or “We'll respond within five days” and then not do it. The reasoning is made from the organization, not from the individual.” Strangely enough, he thinks, many dissatisfied people have the confidence that things could work out if things were arranged differently. “Even though I don't believe in that. Because the problem itself is extremely complex, and every new instance you put on it runs into the same complexity.”
Defensive government
This leads to a government that takes a defensive stance. “Fortunately, a lot of things are also going well,” Marseille puts into perspective. “The Netherlands is one of the nicest countries to live in, and yet the dissatisfaction is so great. I'm guessing that ninety percent of the people in Groningen are very satisfied with how the earthquake damage was dealt with. They were quickly reimbursed for their damage. Of the tens of thousands of applicants, few object and even fewer appeal. But each case is perhaps one too many.” He believes that we should not expect miracles from the self-reliant citizen. “Some municipalities require you to apply for assistance digitally, and you will be poorly informed if you receive a rejection. The municipality of Purmerend does take into account insufficient self-reliance. If you apply for social assistance there, you do it physically in the town hall. The same official who reviews the request with you remains your point of contact. This is also to the advantage of the municipality: less noise. As a municipality, you have to think: who is our target group and how can we best serve it?”
Accessible jurisdiction
Marseille is not only critical of the government, but also of the Judiciary. “Conscientious and hardworking people work there, but the organization does not think enough about how they can best serve citizens and deal with things on time. They run too easily into the arguments that they have too little money, too few judges and are overburdened. While they have to reason the other way around: how can we organize dispute resolution in the best possible way with the resources we have? One problem is that judges feel autonomous. But that independence concerns substantive judgment, and I would like it if judges felt more responsible for the whole thing. There are many initiatives for low-threshold justice, but all kinds of lawyers inside and outside the organization are going to come up with arguments why experiments are contrary to the ECHR.” Marseille finds the Civil Resolution Tribunal in Canada an inspiring example. “A number of civil proceedings have been digitized there. Step 1 is then: what is your legal position, step 2: e-mail with the other party, step 3: bring in a mediator, step 4: submit it to court. So don't escalate immediately, but try to figure it out with the other party first. This is cheaper and increases access to justice. I'm guessing a lot of people just leave it at that. As a judge, you're an expert in dispute resolution, and you should find it impossible that the people who need you don't know how to find their way to you.”This is a summary of the interview with Bart Marseille that appears in the September issue of Mr. Read here the full interview.
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Peter Louwerse
Peter Louwerse studied Dutch law at Erasmus University, worked as a journalist for various newspapers and started as a freelance journalist in 2009. He is one of the regular employees of Mr.
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